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Brad Y.
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Body Work - Rust Removal
05/02/18 at 14:14:44
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Hello all,

I am working on cleaning up my Jeep and a Bantam Trailer. I have some parts with enough rust that I will have to remove the section and have something welded in and then other areas that it is just surface rust. I am looking for some input on what people find is the best way to remove rust and get the metal ready for a painting.

Here are some things I have read/tools to use.
- Wire Brush
- Flap Disc
- Grinding Wheel
- Sand Blasting
- Rust Converter

Is there any I am missing that would make my life easier?

Also when preparing the metal what order should I do?
- Brush, sand, convert
- Convert, sand, ???

Thanks!

  
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1955CJ-5
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #1 - 05/02/18 at 19:32:15
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Along with the other items mentioned, I found these to be pretty effective. The brand I used which I think was called "Gator" wore out pretty quick...

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3031795&KPID=4534139&cid=...
  

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squidtone
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #2 - 05/03/18 at 13:02:50
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Hey Brad,
My answer would be "all of those things" and "it depends". To be sure, if there's holes and missing metal, you will just cut it out and replace with new patches. But as you indicate you still have to deal with original (salvagable) metal that still might be pretty ugly with pits and rust. Inevitably, the original metal in these things is so old that there is no shiny metal left and a deep fine pitted oxidation layer is what you have to deal with. As for welding to original hazy rust metal, I always skim the edges to be welded with a 3 inch roloc 50 grit wheel (with right angle air grinder), and as long as I see some shiny metal there, welds come out fine.
As for prepping surfaces for paints, I believe you don't necessarily have to get the metal "white" (spotlessly clean metal) nowadays. I've used the air grinder with 3 inch roloc discs to get rid of the heavy old paint and rust, then an 5" electric "DA" sander with 80 grit discs to get all the rest of old paint off (and minor rust too). I sandblast nooks and crannies with a weenie sears sandblaster (particularly heavy pitting that is otherwise solid underneath). Finally sometimes you have to do some hand sanding in awkward areas.

The only time I use "converters" is actually on new metal. The stuff I used is phosphoric acid and I got it from Home Depot..it's a classic "metal Prep" stuff. It does etch the factory surface finish of the new metal and gives it "tooth". I wash the stuff off with lots of water and dry it quickly.

At this point all the old coatings are gone, and you should only see some patchy dark brown hazy coloring which I believe some call "tight" rust. For me, this is far enough. Master Series company (they sell industrial coatings) hint that having this "tight" rust haze is good because their coatings will stick very well to it. I don't know about the POR 15 stuff, I think that stuff is more of an anerobic type coating, and not easily manipulated for subsequent real paints.
Once I get to a tight rust phase, I coat with Master Series primer. When I'm ready for painting, I scuff sand the Master Series and then spray my epoxy primers. These work really well at sealing. If any filler work is necessary I put it on top of the epoxy. Once filler work is done, YOu can coat with epoxy again (to seal the fillers), then a "2K" smoothing primer, and finally color coats. These modern primers and paints will be orders of magnitude better than original, and if you marginally take care of the Jeep your resto work will outlast you.

Good Luck!
Dave
  

Dave Miles
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87 XJ Cherokee,
85 XJ Cherokee,
83 CJ8,
81 CJ7
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Brad Y.
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #3 - 05/03/18 at 14:09:31
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1955CJ-5 wrote on 05/02/18 at 19:32:15:
Along with the other items mentioned, I found these to be pretty effective. The brand I used which I think was called "Gator" wore out pretty quick...

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3031795&KPID=4534139&cid=...


Thanks for the suggestion. I might try some of these but my concern was just what you pointed out...that they wear out quickly. I have a fair amount of rust on the trailer I am restoring so looking for cost cutting where possible without compromising the finished product of course.
  
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Brad Y.
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #4 - 05/03/18 at 14:12:12
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squidtone wrote on 05/03/18 at 13:02:50:
Hey Brad,
My answer would be "all of those things" and "it depends". To be sure, if there's holes and missing metal, you will just cut it out and replace with new patches. But as you indicate you still have to deal with original (salvagable) metal that still might be pretty ugly with pits and rust. Inevitably, the original metal in these things is so old that there is no shiny metal left and a deep fine pitted oxidation layer is what you have to deal with. As for welding to original hazy rust metal, I always skim the edges to be welded with a 3 inch roloc 50 grit wheel (with right angle air grinder), and as long as I see some shiny metal there, welds come out fine.
As for prepping surfaces for paints, I believe you don't necessarily have to get the metal "white" (spotlessly clean metal) nowadays. I've used the air grinder with 3 inch roloc discs to get rid of the heavy old paint and rust, then an 5" electric "DA" sander with 80 grit discs to get all the rest of old paint off (and minor rust too). I sandblast nooks and crannies with a weenie sears sandblaster (particularly heavy pitting that is otherwise solid underneath). Finally sometimes you have to do some hand sanding in awkward areas.

The only time I use "converters" is actually on new metal. The stuff I used is phosphoric acid and I got it from Home Depot..it's a classic "metal Prep" stuff. It does etch the factory surface finish of the new metal and gives it "tooth". I wash the stuff off with lots of water and dry it quickly.

At this point all the old coatings are gone, and you should only see some patchy dark brown hazy coloring which I believe some call "tight" rust. For me, this is far enough. Master Series company (they sell industrial coatings) hint that having this "tight" rust haze is good because their coatings will stick very well to it. I don't know about the POR 15 stuff, I think that stuff is more of an anerobic type coating, and not easily manipulated for subsequent real paints.
Once I get to a tight rust phase, I coat with Master Series primer. When I'm ready for painting, I scuff sand the Master Series and then spray my epoxy primers. These work really well at sealing. If any filler work is necessary I put it on top of the epoxy. Once filler work is done, YOu can coat with epoxy again (to seal the fillers), then a "2K" smoothing primer, and finally color coats. These modern primers and paints will be orders of magnitude better than original, and if you marginally take care of the Jeep your resto work will outlast you.

Good Luck!
Dave


Yeah, makes sense. There is no fix all of course. I think I am going to have to just try different methods and see what works best.

Thanks for the pointers when it comes to welding in patches. I will be sure to keep that in mind when I get to them. Starting with the easier areas first so I can feel like I am making progress.  Smiley
  
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Brad Y.
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #5 - 05/04/18 at 00:20:48
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I started with the wire brush and the results are better than I expected. It got rid of the past that was left and removed majority of the rust. This is the fender if the bantam trailer. It is my guinea pig to test things on  Smiley

Hope to try cleaning up the rough surface with a sander... See where that gets me.
  

IMG_20180502_170509714.jpg ( 4209 KB | 22 Downloads )
IMG_20180502_170509714.jpg
IMG_20180502_173239570.jpg ( 4375 KB | 22 Downloads )
IMG_20180502_173239570.jpg
IMG_20180502_173254008.jpg ( 4022 KB | 18 Downloads )
IMG_20180502_173254008.jpg
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #6 - 05/04/18 at 21:24:10
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If you find you need to weld in some repair panels, get some of these...there are lots of sources besides HF..

https://www.harborfreight.com/butt-welding-clamps-8-pc-60545.html

I wish I had known about them....
  

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mtnman37879
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #7 - 05/05/18 at 16:04:18
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+1 for the butt clamps!
  

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P1070701.JPG

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Brad Y.
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #8 - 05/07/18 at 14:17:46
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Those look like they will be handy for sure when the time comes. Thanks for the tip! I had seen the other clamps but those butt clamps will be super nice to have when I get to the panel repairs.
  
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squidtone
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Re: Body Work - Rust Removal
Reply #9 - 05/08/18 at 13:03:46
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Lookin' good!
Those clamps are great, but many times after some stitch welds, the gap shrinks and the clamps get caught! You have to struggle to pull them out! On some joints you have to go a skosh bigger on the gap to prevent getting stuck.
Looking forward to updates!
  

Dave Miles
Presently:                
03 Rubicon,
50 CJ3A
Past:
01 XJ Cherokee,
87 XJ Cherokee,
85 XJ Cherokee,
83 CJ8,
81 CJ7
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