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aboyandhisdog
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water pump performance?
11/28/17 at 12:49:35
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Can a water pump be going bad even if it isn't leaking?  I run hotter than I'd like - especially in the summer heat.  Have R&R'd the thermostat with a 160, flushed the system several times, had the radiator gone through a few years ago, and have a good fan shroud and good radiator fins (not all bent up).  The only thing I haven't cracked open yet is the water pump.  I don't know how old it is - maybe pretty old.  Just wondering if it can be delivering poor performance even though it isn't leaking.  Thanks.
  

Tom

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1955CJ-5
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #1 - 11/28/17 at 14:01:42
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I would not think that the impeller would wear. If the shaft is starting to tighten up the fan/pump may not be turning quite as fast as it should, but I'd think the fan belt would start complaining or would wear quickly.

Are you running 50/50 water/antifreeze, or just water?

Plain water is supposed to be more efficient, but you also need the corrosion/freeze/boil-over protection that anti-freeze or other additives provide. So there is a compromise.

Red Line "Water Wetter" is an additive that can help cooling efficiency.

If the timing is retarded then the engine can run a little hotter.

Are you using the dash gauge or checking it some other way?
« Last Edit: 11/28/17 at 14:12:48 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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RICKG
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #2 - 11/28/17 at 16:14:57
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Hi-Ya Tom, I know your jeep and I see how you maintain it, I gotta believe all systems are in working order. I'm with Randy on this one,  make sure your timing is correct and start checking temps with an alternate gage or infrared.. Muley
  

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aboyandhisdog
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #3 - 11/28/17 at 16:31:39
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I do run 50/50 with a wetter - I think maybe HyperLube, and I do believe the timing is right on for my altitude and I even advance it a bit when at the FCT.  Jeep runs great!  I have an infrared temp gun and am wondering where, exactly, would you point this to get the most accurate reading of the water temp?  Right next to where the gauge goes into the block???

I too don't see how the impeller could wear and would be interested to hear from anybody who has ever seen wear. 

Randy, I actually have been hearing a slight fan belt squeak lately and thought maybe this could be related.  The belt is new as is the alternator and belt is adjusted, so maybe the pump bearings are starting to seize slightly???  Thing is, seems to have been running hot for a long time - long before the squeak.  Maybe I will just swap out the pump and see what happens.
  

Tom

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athawk11
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #4 - 11/28/17 at 16:48:21
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I agree with Randy.  I don't think the impeller would make contact with the pump housing, and get shredded, unless the bearing was shot.  If the bearing fails, then the seal has probably failed and is letting water into the bearing. If the seal fails, it would normally leak out the weep hole.  I would add...I had a water pump fail.  I did not notice any change in how hot the engine ran.  It just leaked.

I would suggest a timing issue too, but I think I remember you're running about 9° advanced.  Maybe too advanced?  Although, I am probably advanced about 7° and don't have heat issue.

Excuse me for rambling on.  I'm sort of thinking out loud.

Could be your temp gauge.  Point the temp gun at the head in a number of locations then calculate the average.  You will find that the engine is warmer toward the firewall.

« Last Edit: 11/28/17 at 16:50:17 by athawk11 »  

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RICKG
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #5 - 11/28/17 at 16:51:44
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And Yep the temps are hottest between 2-3 cyl, thus the placement of the sender..
  

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athawk11
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #6 - 11/28/17 at 16:53:14
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How about the radiator shroud and shroud seals?
  

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1955CJ-5
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #7 - 11/28/17 at 21:42:45
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aboyandhisdog wrote on 11/28/17 at 16:31:39:
I do run 50/50 with a wetter - I think maybe HyperLube, and I do believe the timing is right on for my altitude and I even advance it a bit when at the FCT.  Jeep runs great!  I have an infrared temp gun and am wondering where, exactly, would you point this to get the most accurate reading of the water temp?  Right next to where the gauge goes into the block???

I too don't see how the impeller could wear and would be interested to hear from anybody who has ever seen wear. 

Randy, I actually have been hearing a slight fan belt squeak lately and thought maybe this could be related.  The belt is new as is the alternator and belt is adjusted, so maybe the pump bearings are starting to seize slightly???  Thing is, seems to have been running hot for a long time - long before the squeak.  Maybe I will just swap out the pump and see what happens.



Might just be best to get a new pump as you mentioned.

While the radiator is out you can back-flush it, or use something like Evapo-Rust if it seems necessary.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-tc001?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-sho...

You may also be able to see into the block and check for rust buildup....an old speedometer cable on a drill can be pushed into the block to loosen rust deposits.

I've seen pictures of water pumps with an impeller blade partially broken off......you never know.. Wink

Randy

« Last Edit: 11/28/17 at 22:55:14 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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PercyUK
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #8 - 11/29/17 at 03:44:28
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Hi, just a thought but if you have not already done it I would also check that the thermostat is actually opening fully. I would remove it and see if the problem disappears.
  
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aboyandhisdog
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Re: water pump performance?
Reply #9 - 11/29/17 at 10:59:45
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Thanks guys -  I'm getting some good input here. 

Percy, I did heat both my new and old tstat on the stove before install and they both worked exactly the same.  I was somewhat surprised though by how small the opening is even though I'm sure they are opening fully.  And yes, I did drill the hole(s) which let the air pass through. 

Randy, I do think I'll try the Thermocure that you suggest.  I've been using a flush like Peak or Prestone in the past, but now think maybe they don't have the power to really do the job.  Eight years ago I bought this engine from KW when they were selling a boatload of engines that a guy brought in from overseas.  There is a rebuild data plate on it that references that it was rebuilt at some point in "Ankara".  I can only guess that it ran a compressor or generator or something in Turkey.  Also guessing that maybe they didn't use antifreeze and that it may have had just plain water in it for most of its life.  It may be more corroded than I think and just not transferring heat well anymore.  I won't be able to get to this until after the first of the year, but if I have any success or other findings to share I will do so.

Thanks everybody for your ideas!
  

Tom

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