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squidtone
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Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
03/09/17 at 22:14:51
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Hi folks,
I'm slogging through the welding job on my 3A. I've got a question about the proper (what the factory did) way to weld up the quarters to the tail panels and also the rear valence....
I know that there should be weldment that fills the seam for about an inch between the rear quarter and tail panel from the top. (I have my original panels that I cut out, and they are filled with weld this way)
But what about the bottoms of these quarter/tail panel seams? And do the valence seams also get filled? How much?
See the picture...I know the "A" areas get filled, but what about "B" and "C" areas?
My original panels are so bad down there I cannot tell how it was originally.
Thanks!
  

20170303_204804_001.jpg ( 277 KB | 6 Downloads )
20170303_204804_001.jpg

Dave Miles
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athawk11
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #1 - 03/10/17 at 10:29:32
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Good question.  Both of my 3As needed serious repairs on the back side, so I can't use either to help.  My 2A is a survivor and has the original panels.  I could take a photo and post it this weekend if you wish. 

There aren't many available online photos of 'survivors' that show this area.  From what I could find, I believe you would be safe to close off about a 1/4" on all lower rear joints.

  

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athawk11
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #2 - 03/10/17 at 19:30:49
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After inspecting these joints, I can say with some certainty that they are original welds.  There is still a small amount of Pasture Green on them.  Like most welds on an original Willys, they are pretty sloppy.






  

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squidtone
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #3 - 03/10/17 at 20:28:30
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Ahhh, excellent. This is very helpful..Thanks! I will duplicate that.
As for the sloppy welds, I wonder if the factory used wire feed welders ("MIG") back then. Or did wire feed welders even exist back then.

As a side note, it's interesting in your pictures the rivets used on the crossmember are big round top head rivets...
  

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Mark W.
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #4 - 04/15/17 at 17:09:19
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It was all stick welding well what wasn't spot welded anyway.
  

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athawk11
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #5 - 04/17/17 at 12:20:35
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squidtone wrote on 03/10/17 at 20:28:30:
As a side note, it's interesting in your pictures the rivets used on the crossmember are big round top head rivets...


As far as I can tell, the 2A used the rounded style rivet on the front and rear bumpers.  I'm not sure when this changes.  Most original 3As that I have seen, use the rounded rivet on the front and the flat rivet on the rear.  If consistent, it might be another way to  differentiate a 2A frame from a 3A frame.  Bob W might have some input on this.   
  

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squidtone
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #6 - 04/17/17 at 19:00:27
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Regarding MIG (wire feed) welders,
I got even more curious and read up on when these consumable electrode wire welded came into being and learned that while it did exist back in the late 40's early 50's, the shielding gases were still very expensive. Also the process was still not refined as far as voltages and how the power supplies worked. MIGs didn't get popular in manufacturing until the 60's.

And as for rivets, hawk I concur as my ol' '50 still had round rivets holding the front bumper on, but I had to cut them off so I could hammer the bumper off the Jeep to get it somewhat straight. I was a little wistful as I was cutting them... I may use some "faux" rivet/bolts when it comes time to put it back on.
  

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Bob W
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #7 - 04/17/17 at 21:39:07
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athawk11 wrote on 04/17/17 at 12:20:35:
Bob W might have some input on this.

I don't have any proof, but I believe that the flat rivets on the rear cross-member began with the late CJ-2A frame and continued on into the CJ-3A.
  

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Lee
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Re: Proper weld question rear qtr/tail panel/valence
Reply #8 - 04/23/17 at 22:09:20
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Bob W wrote on 04/17/17 at 21:39:07:
athawk11 wrote on 04/17/17 at 12:20:35:
Bob W might have some input on this.

I don't have any proof, but I believe that the flat rivets on the rear cross-member began with the late CJ-2A frame and continued on into the CJ-3A.


X2, I have not seen a late 2A frame that did not have flat rivets on the rear crossmember. Not saying the round rivets were not used up on the earlier changeovers.

Lee
  

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