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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy" (Read 17151 times)
 
squidtone
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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #60 - 12/02/16 at 07:53:03
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Tub fab update.
I have been fabricating and fitting panels and patches all over the tub, all at the same time...so it all comes out kind of "even"...I don't want to commit to any one section until all my fabricated panels fit together as they should. The cowl, front floor square tubing and rear floor were bolted down to the frame and I started to  build up from there. I partially welded in the rear wheelhouses after confirming their size and fit.

see pic 1

I also welded in the front floor pans to the floor riser, and partially tacked them to the cowl toeboards. And I decided to fabricate the floor hump because it was easier to do without sides in the way. To do the hump, I had to purchase a toolbox from Amazon in order to be sure it would all fit together. (common theme: make sure all this stuff fits together)

The OMIX ADA tool box as delivered had some problemsand required some evenings of metal work. The full toolbox report exists in the "tech" part of the CJ3A forum.

The complexity of all the curves and planes of the hump dictated I build it up in pieces. I started by making the top and flanging the shifter opening. I used the toolbox to help suspend it at the correct elevation. I made paper templates then started to simply piece in sections with tack welds as I went.

see pic 2

I felt like I was making a model of the Uss Zumwalt.

see pic 3

see pic 4

The rear quarter curved section slits were welded and then massaged to make all smooth. I decided to weld the tail light panels and quarters together before installing, and I made some body mount flanges too.

see pic 5

The driver side quarter fit perfectly first try, so I screwed it into place. The passenger side was more complex because of the spare tire mount and associated brace. I purchased a new mount and fabricated a brace out of rectangular tubing rather than use a hat channel piece. This was a bit fussy making it all fit with original dimensions.

see pic 6

I test fit the brace but wisely did not weld it in yet....

see pic 7

When fitting this passenger quarter to the Jeep I found that the lower rear corner stuck out to the rear by about a quarter inch. Laying a straightedge along the back valance reveals the corner standing proud.

see pic 8

I believe I must have not "rolled" in the curve perpendicular to level when I was man-handling the piece in the slip rolls. I could not let that be so I resolved to slice the quarter up to fix it. I drew a line to mark my intended cut, then using my cut off wheel in my 4 inch makita I made the cut and pushed the corner forward so that it is now flush along the back.

see pic 9

With the back flush, I tacked the lower corner to lock it in place, then made another cut to slice out the overlap wedge of metal. I didn't slice all the way to the bottom until I had a few tacks in place to stabilize the position.

see pic 10

see pic 11

see pic 12

Of course this meant my beautiful inside spare tire brace was too long so I cut that and shortened it as well.

see pic 13

Finally I put it all back together and fit the new spare tire mount, put the quarter on and screwed it to the "tub".

see pic 14

Next I started finishing the fit of the front side patches. I'm still working on them but most of the old metal has been cut out, and I actually re-used the side flanges of the original steps and butt welded them to my new panels. I still need to make the little flaps at the front and back of the flanges. Right now making a punch tool for the oval drains too.

see pic 15

I'll post soon I hope with more updates...
« Last Edit: 07/14/17 at 23:36:06 by squidtone »  

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Kirkski
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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #61 - 12/03/16 at 10:27:23
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Very nice handiwork
  

'52 CJ-3A
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squidtone
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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #62 - 12/03/16 at 23:59:14
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Thanks Kirkski. I think most people think we're all nuts fixing up rusted Jeeps, but I enjoy this stuff. I just had success making my side drains using a fixture I made (I've never done any press fixture before), and I just had to add to my post...I showed my wife and she kinda absently said "neat", but I need to show someone!
I made up a pair of forms with aluminum stock; one is the receiver side with a fillet shape, and the other is a top piece to keep the sheet metal from deforming. The plug is meant to be pressed through so it has a fillet lead-in shape to help bend the metal as it gets pressed through.

see pic 1

I marked out the position of the drain hole, then cut out the center leaving enough for the flange.

see pic 2

The two forms were clamped onto the sheet metal. (ignore the counterbore holes; they were just what was in the scrap aluminum stock)

see pic 3

(the C-clamps were too big so I switched to smaller overcenter clamps) Then I put the set up into my press and put in the plug.

see pic 4

I pressed it through but found my plug was not big enough, so I made a sheet metal shim to wrap around the plug and pressed it through again. It pressed the flanges much better against the form for a more "crisp" shape. I was quite happy with the result.

see pic 5

If i had to do it again I would not make my "receiver" form fillet as big....the original has a sharper folded flange. But I'm quite pleased it came out pretty good. If anyone wants to borrow the form rig, just let me know. It's a bit fussy to use but it worked pretty smoothly.
« Last Edit: 07/15/17 at 14:56:35 by squidtone »  

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squidtone
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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #63 - 12/26/16 at 23:35:43
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I've finally gotten to the milestone of getting the tub welded together (mostly). As noted in my previous post the last parts I made were the forward side pieces. I test fit those and trimmed them in preparation for butt welding and the factory style lap weld where the front and rear side pieces meet.

see pic 1

I prepped all the floor and wheel house parts with epoxy primer, then punched holes for plug welds. I then installed the sides with screws, then proceeded to weld most of all the plug welds. Some welding will have to be done when I can get the tub off for easier access.

see pic 2

see pic 3

see pic 4

So the sides, wheel wells, and front and rear floors are all tied together now.
I had expected to make the top flanges of the tub with square tubing, but I decided to try trimming off the original flanges from the removed rotten sides. There was some bent areas on the driver side, but I was able to smack out the bends and get it pretty straight.

see pic 5

I left about an inch of side material in order to clamp it to the new metal.

see pic 6

I then cut through both new and old to make a "fitted" gap for butt welding. I'm currently cutting a little at a time and temporarily screwing the flange inner metal channel to the new side metal.

see pic 7

I have to be very careful cutting so it's taking time, but so far so good. I'll remove them once fitted and sandblast them, then weld them in. I'm happy I'll have the vestigal top edge flanges on this mostly all new metal tub. More to come!!!
« Last Edit: 07/15/17 at 14:59:09 by squidtone »  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #64 - 12/27/16 at 10:32:22
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Nice approach on those top flanges.  I like it!
  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #65 - 01/24/17 at 18:07:02
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I'm happy to report that I was able to match cut the top flanges to the new side metal, then remove, sandblast, prime, reinstall, and tack them back in. The inner strengthening channels didn't get cut and I was able to temporarily screw the new sides to the inner channels with little sheet metal screws before tacking. I'll weld the screw holes when I'm done with the butt welding.

see pic 1

With the flange tops fixed in place, I welded in my repaired "L" brackets to the sides/wheelwells, and my homemade "V" plates that tie the forward and rear sides together.


see pic 2

The originals were too far gone. I taped the seams to the floors to prevent too much grinding slag from getting stuck in there. I will seam seal them soon when the welding is done.

I had been avoiding the front fenders because they are in really bad shape. I did do some repairs a few months ago, but they still needed complete "rebuilding" of all the overlap areas; they were severly rusted. I started with the easy repairs to the lower edges...

see pic 3

The corner areas where the tops and backs meet also needed pretty much complete replacement. So I fabricated each section, welded it together separately, then cut the bad parts off the fender and put in the replacement sections.

see pic 4

Each fender area where the wide overlap flange bolts to the tub was bad, so I made those too. I used 18 gauge and I'm pretty sure some of the fender metal was a thinner gauge. But 18ga. is what I have.

see pic 5

The edges that are around the wheel opening are folded around a heavy wire and crimped, so I made those separately by getting some welding rod and folding sheetmetal around the rod. I cut them to shape and welded them to my patches. In this picture I've got one edge tacked in...

see pic 6

MIG welders are not the neatest so I've got alot of grinding to do. Not my favorite thing to do. Here's the passenger fender mostly fixed awaiting grinding.

see pic 7

The driver side fender front was torn and damaged which allowed the fender to slant away from being "flat". So I made a new corner where it bolts to the grille. THere's another sheet metal sandwich there too.

see pic 8

So the fenders now bolt on and are pretty "flat" and look better than they did when I picked this thing up 10 years ago.

see pic 9

I still have big issues with oil canning and warpage from all the damage they had and the weld heat damage I've put into them. I'm not so sure fixing these was the greatest idea. Not the greatest payoff for all the work that I put into them. On the other hand, I don't know what repro fenders look like, and after seeing the repro tool box fit and finish, I guess I'll just content myself that these will do. I'm a little nervous that some of the metalwork on this Jeep is wonky....I guess I've definitely tracked away from having a real "straight" sheet metal Jeep. I'll keep toiling away on what's left and see what it looks like and go from there. My hood is pretty dented and has stress cracks, although it has no rust. We'll see. Thanks for looking...I'm still having fun on this project!
« Last Edit: 07/15/17 at 21:56:18 by squidtone »  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #66 - 01/29/17 at 08:00:48
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I think you work looks great, after painting mine I as well noticed some areas that were a little "wonky", but I am satisfied.

I am actually pleased that my Jeep isn't perfect, I don't want a source of contention with my grand kids. I want them to crawl all over it and enjoy it.

I feel I have struck a perfect balance for that

Nice job!
  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #67 - 03/18/17 at 09:35:03
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March 2017
I've made some slow and creeping progress, and I was kind of torn on what to post. I think sometimes I'm putting up too much boring stuff, but then I think maybe it's better to post too much than too little. Sooo, the tub is in the final stages of the major repairs getting welded up. I fabricated the tailgate opening surround by cutting up some Stanley "barn door" track which is used for large outbuiding doors with trolly wheels. I bought a piece at tractor supply as I didn't want to travel to the metal supplier and then hassle trying to bend it into a right angle. This stuff fit the bill fine. I cut pieces to shape and welded it together. Bonus is the track is galvanized...

see pic 1

I welded the surround in with plug welds.

see pic 2

I came close to welding in the toolbox but at the last minute I knew I'd regret not putting in the two louvers. I made "forms" with scrap aluminum which

allowed me to pound the louver shape in with a wood form and hammer. The wood form is on the left.

see pic 3

Before fitting the forms, I slit (note the marker line) the louver opening with a dremel tool cut off wheel.

see pic 4

Once the slit is made, I clamp on the top and bottom form and just pound the wood against the metal to form the louver. Here's the one on the side:

see pic 5

I made up a toolbox gutter drain and welded it to the rear riser. I filled the gaps of the drain with thickened paint to seal it up. The toolbox is now

welded in.

see pic 6

The tailgate was in decent shape rust-wise, but the hinge pin welds were broken. I took them completely out and sopped the insides of both top and bottom

rolls with master series primer, then welded the hinge pins back in. I also had to completely reweld the top rolled flange as all the spotwelds were broken.

It's thick metal and taxed my poor little Lincoln welder! Anyway, the tailgate sure shows alot of character and I kinda like it. (Also note I scraped down

the hood with a razor...the hood must have had body work at one point and it's got very thick red oxide primer. It will be a bear to remove...)

see pic 7

The rear top bow pockets were in really tough shape and one of the tubes was gone. I made new tubes with pieces of EMT conduit (which was the exact same

size) and welded the tubes to the brackets. The body was prepped and then the brackets welded to the tub.

see pic 8

I also welded in the original tailgate chain brackets. I didn't have much experience welding anything except sheet metal, so it was a learning curve to

weld thick stuff like this.

see pic 9

After a break, I went back to the front fenders and finally finished them up. I was avoiding taking out the passenger side brace, but there was some soft

spots so I ended up doing that and patching the fender, blasting and patching the brace which included getting rid of the wood and welding in spacer tubes

so the bolts won't crush the brace when bolted to the frame.

see pic 10

The brace is welded back on the passenger fender:

see pic 11

Here's the driver front bolted on...it's pretty much done.

see pic 12

Both fenders ended up with huge "oil can" issues on the tops. It was really bad and I was ready to give up on them. In desperation I performed a shrinking procedure on them with a propane torch. Using propane seemed to be universally condemned in my research, but, it really worked well for me. To support the "pro"-propane cause I'm making a video for folks with nothing to lose! I'll post it soon...
« Last Edit: 07/15/17 at 22:00:30 by squidtone »  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #68 - 03/18/17 at 18:13:40
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Very nice.....definitely some "deja vu all over again" for me in that fender repair Smiley

Wish I had known about those butt welding clamps you used in a earlier post when I did mine.....you should put a picture of them in the "useful tool" thread...

http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/3Ayabb26/YaBB.pl?num=1406777226
« Last Edit: 03/18/17 at 18:15:45 by 1955CJ-5 »  

1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...
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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #69 - 03/18/17 at 22:13:55
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Squid,
Nothing you're posting is boring.  Not for a true Willys enthusiast.  You do really nice creative metal work.  It's fun for us to see how you solve common problems.

And remember, this thread is also a documented time capsule of your personal efforts. Years from now, you may enjoy looking back through it.  It will also inspire and encourage others that initially think their own project is too far gone to restore.

Tim
  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #70 - 03/19/17 at 18:51:28
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Thanks Tim,
It's funny...I definitely get odd looks when people see what I do to rescue this old stuff. My brother is completely mystified why I waste my time on this old Jeep. We are both "motorheads", but he just doesn't get the flatfender thing. I can't help myself. Ha.

And shifting gears (so to speak) I did post the video about taking out the "oil can" problem on my fenders. I was astonished this worked as well as it did.



I'm drilling out the spot welds in the hood today. I have to take it completely apart to fix cracks. I'll post again soon...
  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #71 - 03/19/17 at 18:54:25
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1955CJ-5
Thanks for linking to that post about neat tools. The very first one is something that I just recently could have used, and never knew it existed. I made some gaskets for my GTO waterpump swap and sure could have used that punch kit. I'm gonna get one...
Dave
  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #72 - 03/19/17 at 21:44:57
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I tried and tried shrinking with a mapp torch, with limited success....but, I did not know about the step using the hammer and dolly....Is that a shrinking hammer and dolly, or just smooth?

Thanks for the video!
« Last Edit: 03/20/17 at 11:04:23 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #73 - 03/20/17 at 19:40:41
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Hey '55,
No it's a plain ol' smooth hammer and cheapo dolly. Some years ago I too tried without success to shrink some sheet metal on my Pontiac with a propane torch and it scared the heck out of me when I saw a huge bulge form. I gave up and didn't try it again until this Jeep front fender situation.

So recently, I thought I'd research the internet on how to do shrinking with heat. Most everything I found (disregarding the "shrinking discs") use oxy/acetylene for a heat source. Well, I don't have oxy/acetylene and wanted to use propane. Most information was sketchy and incomplete. Many seemed to imply that metal "shrinks" just by heating it up and cooling it down. If that was the case, propane should work like oxy/acetylene, which it doesn't.

After thinking about it, I believe what really is happening with the oxy/acetylene method is when you heat a dime size spot dull red, a small, localized hot bulge forms and you create a large temperature gradient. The hot bulge imparts an expanding force upon the cool, stable surrounding metal. Since the hot metal is weaker, it succumbs to the resistant force and thickens in the bulge area. When the hot spot cools to ambient, the work zone takes up a smaller area...it shrinks!

But, if propane is used for for this passive heating/cooling technique, it takes too long to heat a spot to a dull red, and in the meantime, more heat spreads out far, and your localized "bulge" is so large you aren't going to get the compressive forces from the surrounding cool area; basically the large affected zone absorbs too much of the opposing forces.

Logically however, we can help things along in thickening the bulge by hammering the heated bulge flat. The hammering compresses the large area to thicken the work zone. So it's no longer a passive technique, but it helps things along. The downside of the large work area is having to move the hammer around alot which inevitably creates a dimpled surface. You have to go in after it's cool and fix the texture with more hammer/dolly work and/or slappers.

So that was my theorizing anyway. And it seemed to work for me! Many out there in internet land seemed negative on using propane, so I made the video to show that oil canning can be removed with propane heat.
  

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03 Rubicon,
01 Cherokee,
50 CJ3A
Past:
87 Cherokee,
85 Cherokee,
83 CJ8,
81 CJ7
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1955CJ-5
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It wasn't always green....

Posts: 2144
Location: South West Idaho
Joined: 12/18/12
Gender: Male
Re: 50 CJ3A "Nuthin' Fancy"
Reply #74 - 03/20/17 at 22:46:59
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Thanks for the explanation....my fault was probably with heating too large an area...and no hammer/dolly work...

I watched some of those youtube videos.....acetylene is probably the answer....at least they make it look easy...

Randy
« Last Edit: 03/20/17 at 22:48:02 by 1955CJ-5 »  

1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...
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