It was suggested that I start a thread to get some opinions on whether I should buy a truckload of repair panels or a replacement tub....Now I've read several threads on the tubs and realize they too require lots of work. The trouble with the repair panels is that I have little welding experience, and no welder...I'm willing to learn..but first some pictures..

Realize that what you are looking at on the floors is the first replacement panel that has rusted through. In the case of the drivers side there are three layers of floor...The tool box is welded over as is the riser and the area behind the seats....Frame has no rust through and appears solid.

I've been told that photobucket will no  longer host third party pictures...and that may mean those posted in this thread..so if you see no pictures that is why....updated 7/3/2017

Randy,
You and I find ourselves in a similar position.  We both have tubs that are very rough.  I am normally the type that would encourage you to work on your welding skills.  A nice little wire feed is easy to use and quite handy beyond a Willys.  I did this level of work on my first 3A.  Tub repair added a full year to my 2 year build.  If you are in no hurry, improve your welding skills and repair your tub.  There is a huge batch of self satisfaction waiting for you.  

On the other hand, if patience is not in your cards and you have fairly deep pockets, a replacement tub may be a better choice.  As you have read, there will be work to do, but no where near as much.

Perhaps you can find an original doner tub that is in better condition than yours.  The draw back here is you will still, most likely, have work to do.  And it make take some time to find one.  

I have a Willys to drive now, so the decision is easy.  I have decided to look for a doner tub.  

You've got a nice CJ5 to drive, and many other 3A micro projects to tackle.  You could look for a tub while you fix other sub-groups.  

I know...I didn't help at all.  

Tim  

I think deep down I agree with you guys.  Going after it step by step and getting a few solid parts in there to build on might be the way to go. I'll need a welder either way, so I should get that first. Then maybe a nibbler or a 4 1/2" grinder or probably both. Worst case is I'll cut away the rust and not find enough steel to work with.

I think floor boards should be first and then work back from there. I can't  separate the body from the frame as I think I'll end up with two or more sections.. right now I have sort of a fixture to hold things in place while adding new parts...

I know there have been worse jeeps that have been brought back...

One thing you might consider is using the general shape of the old parts to make simpler versions of the new parts out of slightly heavier steel.. Leaving out the stiffening ribs, substituting more bracing under the bed floor, etc, can get you a good useable tub that is no longer stock but functions well, for a lot less than a new tub.

I wouldn't get too worried about cutting your tub apart to rebuild it. If your dash, cowl top, and firewall are good, you can build the rest.  It is in teh making thaings exactly like original that the expense comes. If you aren't fussy you can still have a good looking jeep for a lot less. (Leaving the tailgate out ala the WWII and DJ tubs will save a bunch of time too.)

So, ten minutes with a drill and the first layer is out. The second layer is held in with bucked rivets so it may not come out so easily....the heavier panel is held in with a bolt..I'm nearing the point-of-no-return..

And the spiral deep space willys nebula...

I think at this point you should start looking at what body panels you can get and the total price of the panels you will need. Then look at the prices of a repo tub and compare the prices. Then remember that you will have to put all those panels in your current tub. Now you have to decide is it worth rebuilding your tub compared to buying a tub and modifying it to work for you.

Consider buying the cowl sides with steps, the quarter panels, and a solid rear panel from classic, and making all the wheelhouse and floor pieces yourself. You will have the option to make your own length wheelhouses to allow whatever size seat you want that way. THe floor can be all built with 16 gage or even thin diamond plate, and hat channels can be made with tubing.

For a similar made from nothing jeep see Mike Gardner's build thread over on the 2A page. He built a 45 from a badly rotted tub, and it came out great!

EDIT... four side panels from Classic are $720.  The rear panel is $4xx or so. You can make your own rear panel for that.  Their rear floor is $270, Omix gets $350 but theirs includes the riser. THe rear floor is a simple box, with ribs, If you don't need the ribs you can use 16 gage to build it and spend a lot less. You could buy a bead roller and dies to make your own but it isn't quite that simple as rolling 8 ribs in, as it will get all warped if you don't prestretch where the ribs go.
SECOND EDIT:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/my-winter-project-built-my-own-tub_topic21822....

Check out Phil's tub building adventure....No Classic parts involved!

Here is Mike Gardners tub rebuild , scattered over the first ten pages or so..

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/7-years-of-work-a-lifetime-of-fun_topic6702_pa...

Ihope you have seen the tub rebuilding FAQ.... http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tub-rebuilding-information-thread_topic21836.h...; That reminds me I need to cut and paste that one over here..

If you don't pull the toolbox off you can't really fix the floor.

I agree....I guess I've already gone beyond the point of no return....Time to get the grinder going...

I'm having the same dilemma, save and repair or new tub.  I think I'll start cutting out rust, then figure what I need for panels and do the math.

1955, If the other CJ3 tub is solid you should very seriously consider buying it and fixing it up with parts from the rusted out Jeep. You can swap out the F engine and use the unmodified hood.

1955CJ-5 wrote on 02/06/13 at 04:26:01:

Sounds like a good case of "the two shall become one". 

Randy, I am just trying to save you a lot of money and work. I paid $1800 for my Jeep and should have paid $1000 or less. I now have about $8000 in it and it's still a rough and tumble looking Jeep needing a lot of body work.

I believe at this point I would make one jeep out of two.

Carls_jeep wrote on 02/06/13 at 15:41:44:


I paid 1500 for this one and less than 1000 would have been more reasonable...But I have it now and I need to sort this out in my head. Saving the old tub seems unlikely. A lot of work as you pointed out, a big expense and I just will not be able to get all the rust...The only panels that are not rusted are the hood and grill, everything that salt from the roads splashed on is toast...

I'll wait until I hear from the fellow who is cleaning the radiator and go from there...

The inside of the tool box lid still has the original color....

Randy,

Great approach.  Something will come along when you least expect it.  It's karma!!  Positive thoughts...positive results.

We're all here for you man!!

Tim

A friend who has several jeeps came over today to look at the "new" 3a. He commented that the rust looks worse in person than it did in the pictures. But we talked about it and I think it was F Bill who first suggested just making my own floor boards.

I can make the template, but I'll leave the cutting to a local shop. I'll try to fit them in.  I think it's gonna work...

No welder yet....I'll visit the sheet metal shop tomorrow and see what happens...

Need to fix my profile...I got my SW and SE mixed up....I'm in Boise....still not all that far away....

I just used a real thin cut off wheel in my angle grinder to make all my sheet cuts.  I always tend to do things economically and try to use what I can make due with what I have at the house.
For the hats, I had the same sheet metal shop fold those.  I gave them a sample of the old hats and they just bent me straight lengths then I cut and welded as needed.  I got the hats cut and braked, the sheet for my floors (both in 16 gauge) then enough 18 gauge material for other patch work all for $60.  Saves a ton of $ if you put in in your own labor in anything you can do yourself.

I have a grinder....nibblers are pretty expensive but you can get an attachment for a hand drill that is not too bad...I'll try the angle grinder route first....

Thanks Steve...I really am enjoying this..I look forward to it everyday..

I have a good jigsaw, and a compressor...and I've got the wiss shears but maybe a new (sharp!) pair would be a good purchase...

Going to get some Por-15 and some sheet metal today....stay tuned....

Randy,
  You've surely seen the many posts on the ills and woes of a MD Juan reproduction body.  I have one and many of such posts were mine.  However the ills and woes are all surmountable.  Just look at the many completed Jeeps to prove it.  However, during the year and a half of my restoration project I spoke with Dan, the owner, at Willys Overland in Toledo.  Their tubs and other components are a little more expensive, but Dan told me they have corrected ALL the misgivings of the MD Juan products.  Maybe you should consider that.  By the time I got the end of my project I would have gladly given a few hundred more dollars to escape some of the head aches.  Just a thought. 

  No matter which way you go there will be challenges and expenses.  Trying to find an acceptable and enjoyable balance is the trick.

  Good luck!!!

Stack_O_Lee wrote on 02/09/13 at 12:48:07:


I think you may be right. I went to a place that would cut the floors out, and he told me that if he bought a full sheet the price dropped dramatically...the $75 price I got was for pre-cut pieces. So there is a premium charged for the cutting and for leaving them with an odd sized fragment. The way this is going I'll need a full sheet anyway.

Going out to Harbor Freight today. They have a power shear that gets 5 stars and is only about $35....and it's supposed to cut up to 16 ga....I've got a whole list....

One other thing...Why are the floor panels from Kaiser Willys so expensive? They are more than twice the cost of floors from Classic Enterprises..I've gotta call them. I still might get hat channels.

KW's riser with the floor attached is most likely the MD Juan version, which is slightly flimsier than stock. I don't know if I could recommend using it or not, maybe the new ones are heavier than the one I got almost a decade ago. Classic's rear floor had issues too, if they can make a flat one instead of the twisted one I got a while back, it may be worth it. I do know there have been improvements at both places. The Classic floor is heavier than stock and strong as can be.

The cheapest way to do this would be to purchase or far a new riser, then use flat steel to make the floor.  It is About 36 by 39.5 from memory with a 5/8 flange turned down around the edge for welding to the wheelhouses. There are hat channels underneath, not as tall as the ones under your front floor.

Speaking of hat channels, you may want to purchase some premade hat channel material from a place called Nor Am  body parts, and use them to fab up new ones, if they are close to the stock size. Otherwise buy new prefabbed ones.  If the one in your tranny tunnel is bad, Midwest military makes a good one and I think Classic now has one. It is too complicated to make your own.

If you have a sheet metal shop nearby with a press brake or a good tight leaf brake, you can often have hat channels made pretty inexpensively compared to purchasing from the jeep suppliers. Just have them make several lengths of the sizes you need and cut off what you need to install.

Quote:


Thanks Bill, I figured the K-W floor was an MD Juan, as are most of their other parts except for the one's that have Made in the USA in the description, and these are probably Classic Ent. parts. 

I'm still looking for a sheet metal shop that is willing to make parts like that.  not much luck so far. The one shop only sells steel, the other only cuts it. There are plenty of them so someone must take on small parts like this...

Randy

New parts have arrived!!  The new panels from Classic Enterprises have exceeded my expectations.....They look great, and each one is signed by the fellow who fabricated them.

The next week should show some significant progress...

The floor sits flat by itself. It is quite sturdy, with two hat channels running cross wise and the 1/2" or so lip all the way around...

The hats for the front floor have the spacers welded in, and the left front fender support has a short piece of wood inside for crush prevention.

Hi Doug,

I'm on my way to Wendell via google earth..!

Thanks for the info.

I'm hopeful that I can save this tub....there may be more parts needed but for now this may work....

Panel fit is good....

Driver floor is in....

Before

Thanks for the encouragement!

Progress on the passenger side..

Those hat channels look pretty good..I like that they are signing them. You may want to hit them with some ospho or other quick metal conditioner before priming, to help with adhesion and rust issues. you are making pretty fast progress!

Sorry about that thread hijack, that's what I get for posting directly from the Last ten posts view....I deleted all the non pertinent postings...

Two floors now....next is the riser then the bed...

Very nice!

Before and After.....

Nice work indeed. I am facing the same level of wholesale floor replacement. Watching what you're doing here gives me some inspiration. I have a lot of fabrication skills to learn, but hopefully I can make it happen.

Had to laugh at the last two posts from JBC and 1955CJ5 about our tools. My wife can only take a guess at what I am spending on parts, the problem will be if she ever finds out about the new tools!

You're really making great progress.  Keep the updates rolling.

Tim

Does it have the jeep script on the front of it?

Hmmm... how come my repro body didn't come with it then...  Well, that was several years ago too.

I too got a replacement tool box from KW. It took a bit of massaging to make it fit properly. The latch never has worked and is poorly built. Just another rebuild on my list. My 3A had another gas tank where the toolbox goes so I had no toolbox pieces to work with. There was nothing stamped on the KW replacement.

So I thought I'd do some rust repair..

And it kept growing....

But it turned out OK...

Wow!

This thread is giving me inspiration to fix the tub on my '49... I really don't know if I should or not though. I like it as an unrestored original.

Yeah, thats the problem... I like it being original. But then again, it is no good if the original body rots away too... Decisions, decisions...